Andrea Yates

[SpareOOM]

I have always felt very sorry for this woman. She had a long history of illness and poor care. Her insurance company's mental health assesment team should be shot. At one point, they were unsure what to do with her, so they stuck her in a partial care (day care) program for people with drug and alcohol problems! Terrible. It's a laundry list of inadequate care.

I also do not get why her husband bore no responsibility. For days she had been saying that she was going to kill the children, and he did nothing. I don't understand how this mentally ill woman was left alone to be June Cleaver when she was so illl.

The most thorough account I've read to date is here:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/3.html

So, she getting a second trial now. It's about time. I think she should definetly be kept in therapuetic setting; away from others (not as a punishment, but as a safety measurement), but not made to take the blame where the insurance company's mental health assement team/s & her husband failed her.

So sad.

[SpareOOM]

I think I put the above post in the wrong place--it should be with the list of other crime topics. Could someone move it? Thanks (sorry)! I'm posting while on loopy medication for a cracked rib LOL.

[Idle47]

Wrong spot or not, I agree w/you 100%. That poor woman was in the grip of severe phsychosis & has to be in a living hell now knowing what she did. And the fact that her husband & doctors bore no legal responsibilty in any of it just ticks me off to no end. :mad:

I'm not in any way justifying anything she did, but she was left hanging in the wind when there were people around that should have (and could have) done something before it got to the point where she killed her own children. It just causes my heart to hurt so badly every time I think of it.

[factsuall]

Spare and Idle I agree with you both 100%.

Society has it set up that mothers must be monsters if they harm their own children and I have no doubt some mothers are the boogey man to some.But in this case of a history of psychosis she is clearly a person who fell through the proverbial cracks and EVERYONE WHO KNEW is responsible. Sadly many health issues for women are outrageously misunderstood or misdiagnosed or ignored which we all know causes greater problems.

Having said that I cannot bear to hear about what she did to the children.

I am familiar with mental illnesses but even I cannot understand what happened here.

[SpareOOM]

Spare and Idle I agree with you both 100%.

Society has it set up that mothers must be monsters if they harm their own children and I have no doubt some mothers are the boogey man to some.But in this case of a history of psychosis she is clearly a person who fell through the proverbial cracks and EVERYONE WHO KNEW is responsible. Sadly many health issues for women are outrageously misunderstood or misdiagnosed or ignored which we all know causes greater problems.

Having said that I cannot bear to hear about what she did to the children.

I am familiar with mental illnesses but even I cannot understand what happened here.


There was a lot of bizarre religious stuff going on too. Andrea and Russell were part of of some Christian oriented group run by a guru type of nutcase--encouraging women to have zillions of babies, homeschool only, and be the perfect Christain wife; having the man's slippers waiting for him when he came home, that kind of crappola. I think he was ever encouraging for men to hit women who did not comply.

So once you've already got someone with an illness, combine it with a born again Christian regime, it's a recipe for scary stuff.

Just think of the amount of physical strength that it took for a 120 pound woman to carry out an act like that (drowning all of those kids); the struggling, lifiting, forcing, resisitance, etc.. that kindo of adrenaline is not something that average Jane can present.

I really feel bad for her because she's been demonized. This poor lady has a LONG HISTORY of psychosis. She was and is a diagnosed schizophrenic; how can anyone stand back and call her a bunch of names and make terrible comments, such as "Fry the B*itch..." -- horrible!

[factsuall]

There was a lot of bizarre religious stuff going on too. Andrea and Russell were part of of some Christian oriented group run by a guru type of nutcase--encouraging women to have zillions of babies, homeschool only, and be the perfect Christain wife; having the man's slippers waiting for him when he came home, that kind of crappola. I think he was ever encouraging for men to hit women who did not comply.

So once you've already got someone with an illness, combine it with a born again Christian regime, it's a recipe for scary stuff.

Just think of the amount of physical strength that it took for a 120 pound woman to carry out an act like that (drowning all of those kids); the struggling, lifiting, forcing, resisitance, etc.. that kindo of adrenaline is not something that average Jane can present.

I really feel bad for her because she's been demonized. This poor lady has a LONG HISTORY of psychosis. She was and is a diagnosed schizophrenic; how can anyone stand back and call her a bunch of names and make terrible comments, such as "Fry the B*itch..." -- horrible!Yes, thanks for the reminder Spare.I am not a christian so I had forgotten about that information and yes that would explain it. I find mental lillness is given such bad name when it comes to violence as most MI are NOT violent, only episiodic and not to this extreme unless you are paranoid schizophrenic.PTSD can be violent but it is situation specific and usual innward harm.

I do remember staying away from this discussion on the other board because it was either 'FRY HER' or a rationalization of christianity. I do not think people truly understand the damage that was done to this woman.No it is not an excuse but if we are going to call someone out their name, lets be at least educated about it.

She like so many women and mothers are demonized and yet those who create the problem are never included. I remember thinking on exactly the point you raise about her size and what she did.

It is still murder and I can only think how betrayed her children felt when the last face in their eternal souls and eyes was of their perpetrator: their own mother.

She is mentally ill that is clear and this is a mitigating circumstance for sure. I am glad she has another trial now that all the Salem hunt is over.

[Toxy's Got Game!]

Fry her and throw her carcass in the shrubs.

[MilkDudz]

The real culprit here is Rusty Yates. Unindicted, and now free to marry, imprison, and impregnate another woman.

[Nandee]

Well said, Milk!

[karejo]

Spare and Idle I agree with you both 100%.

Society has it set up that mothers must be monsters if they harm their own children and I have no doubt some mothers are the boogey man to some.But in this case of a history of psychosis she is clearly a person who fell through the proverbial cracks and EVERYONE WHO KNEW is responsible. Sadly many health issues for women are outrageously misunderstood or misdiagnosed or ignored which we all know causes greater problems.

Having said that I cannot bear to hear about what she did to the children.

I am familiar with mental illnesses but even I cannot understand what happened here.
Spare and Idle I agree with you both 100%.

Society has it set up that mothers must be monsters if they harm their own children and I have no doubt some mothers are the boogey man to some.But in this case of a history of psychosis she is clearly a person who fell through the proverbial cracks and EVERYONE WHO KNEW is responsible. Sadly many health issues for women are outrageously misunderstood or misdiagnosed or ignored which we all know causes greater problems.

Having said that I cannot bear to hear about what she did to the children.

I am familiar with mental illnesses but even I cannot understand what happened here.



The voices she was hearing won. I can only imagine the fight she put up to ignore them as long as she did.
This woman didn't get the proper help. The children were left in harms way by all involved.
.

[InsanitysAngel]

For many reasons, personal and otherwise, I'm torn on this case.

I acknowledge that the mental issues are very real, but to go through the motions of drowning each one separately, I have to wonder why something didn't kick in and make her question what she was doing. Especially considering how the older ones must have struggled.

[InsanitysAngel]

This hit the news today, but is she telling the truth?


http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3937269

Woman says Yates told her how to 'beat her case'

Prosecutors say Felicia Doe told them last year that Yates told her not to eat, not to speak properly, not to be friendly or open in front of people. Doe spent four days in 2002 in a jail block with Yates, who drowned her five children in 2001.

"The defendant also said if you could get the jail psychiatrist on your side, they could testify to your mental health and they couldn't prosecute you if you were sick," according to a document in which prosecutor Kaylynn Williford details interviews with a variety of witnesses who could be called during Yates' upcoming capital murder retrial.

[vervilledeb1]

This hit the news today, but is she telling the truth?


http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3937269

Woman says Yates told her how to 'beat her case'

Prosecutors say Felicia Doe told them last year that Yates told her not to eat, not to speak properly, not to be friendly or open in front of people. Doe spent four days in 2002 in a jail block with Yates, who drowned her five children in 2001.

"The defendant also said if you could get the jail psychiatrist on your side, they could testify to your mental health and they couldn't prosecute you if you were sick," according to a document in which prosecutor Kaylynn Williford details interviews with a variety of witnesses who could be called during Yates' upcoming capital murder retrial.


If this is true it is sick. Its bad enough what happened to those poor children but this is way too much. I am not taking sides at all at the moment I am just going on what I just read.

Where the h*ll was the husband in all this?

[InsanitysAngel]

It's definitely interesting isn't it Debby? If it's true, it paints a very, VERY bad picture. It also means that lots of tax dollars have been wasted. I'm going to keep an eye on this one.

:mad:

[InsanitysAngel]

Oh, wow, I'm getting sick. :sad3:


Doe, who could not be reached for comment by the AP, also told prosecutors that Yates said she locked the door so her oldest son, 7-year-old Noah, couldn't get out of the house and that he was crying so hard "he was throwing up."

"She hit his head against the bathtub several times in an effort to incapacitate him," Doe told prosecutors.

[vervilledeb1]

Oh, wow, I'm getting sick. :sad3:


Doe, who could not be reached for comment by the AP, also told prosecutors that Yates said she locked the door so her oldest son, 7-year-old Noah, couldn't get out of the house and that he was crying so hard "he was throwing up."

"She hit his head against the bathtub several times in an effort to incapacitate him," Doe told prosecutors.

I will go and research this and see what was found at the crime scene to see what I can come up with. If this is the case then this is sicker than what I had ever imagined. And also if she is talking about as if in bragging that is sicker beyond what would ever be excusable.

[InsanitysAngel]

Thanks Debby. I would say I couldn't think it could be true but I know better.

[vervilledeb1]

Here's some reading: http://www.mayhem.net/Crime/andreayates.html

I have a question that is not fitting for me. If she didn't know that what she was doing was wrong then why after calling 911 and the law shows up why would she ask how much jail time she would get? Seems to me that would be the last thing she would be thinking. If you don't
know what you just did is wrong why would the punishment for the act come into your mind?

[InsanitysAngel]

My main contention has always been that if she didn't know she was doing anything "wrong", why did she call the police at all?

[vervilledeb1]

My main contention has always been that if she didn't know she was doing anything "wrong", why did she call the police at all?

The more information I am getting the more I am leaning toward premeditated. Okay, do the crime, call the husband at work to come home that something has happened to the children, call 911...police show up and then ask how long of a sentence. Does this make sense? No one not in their right mind could have put this together so well and carried out all the steps. Much less being taken off medication for severe depression. I don't buy this.

[vervilledeb1]

And let me add. Her husband is just as guilty. He was no help and if he suspected this then he should have stepped in. Was work more important? What about the children? She told him right out this was going to happen. If he was pulling his hair out over this why didn't he DO more? Sorry but GUILTY! Of course this is IMO.

[InsanitysAngel]

And I agree with everything you said as well. It's just so sad.

[ScarlettRuby]

There was a lot of bizarre religious stuff going on too. Andrea and Russell were part of of some Christian oriented group run by a guru type of nutcase--encouraging women to have zillions of babies, homeschool only, and be the perfect Christain wife; having the man's slippers waiting for him when he came home, that kind of crappola. I think he was ever encouraging for men to hit women who did not comply.

So once you've already got someone with an illness, combine it with a born again Christian regime, it's a recipe for scary stuff.

Just think of the amount of physical strength that it took for a 120 pound woman to carry out an act like that (drowning all of those kids); the struggling, lifiting, forcing, resisitance, etc.. that kindo of adrenaline is not something that average Jane can present.

I really feel bad for her because she's been demonized. This poor lady has a LONG HISTORY of psychosis. She was and is a diagnosed schizophrenic; how can anyone stand back and call her a bunch of names and make terrible comments, such as "Fry the B*itch..." -- horrible!

I have to agree with you, Spare! These are the same feelings I have about this case. The story causes me to feel ill.

[ScarlettRuby]

Verve and Angel, Do you think this jailhouse snitch is credible? The prosecution has a lot to lose if Yates is not convicted the second time around, or if the jury finds her guilty of a lesser charge.

I have to discount any jailhouse snitch testimony in any case. It's too easy for the prosecutors to get away with their own forms of murder using this kind of testimony.

[InsanitysAngel]

You just never know Scarlett. Plenty of cases have been decided by jailhouse testimony though.

It does make certain other things fall into different perspective as well.

[NicoMoon]

You just never know Scarlett. Plenty of cases have been decided by jailhouse testimony though.

It does make certain other things fall into different perspective as well.

I just got finished reviewing the Yates case again, it's been a few years since I read the story.

The primary point being made that I have to support is that the overturning of her conviction is because of false testimony. She didn't get a fair trial, because an expert witness offered false information in the form of a motive for her actions. The prosecution included that theory in much of it's presentation, therefore the jury operated on inaccurate information.

This jailhouse snitch testimony is evidently not being taken very seriously by many. IMO, it's the prosecution's attempt to pollute a future jury pool. The snitch story doesn't make too much sense to me anyway.

Yates has a long history of mental illness. She certainly didn't start faking that years in advance of drowning her children, just so she'd have a clever excuse. Not to mention the fact that she wasn't excused at all.

The hope among many here seems to be for Andrea to be found not guilty by reason of insanity this time around, so she can get the treatment she needs in a therapeutic environment. If ever there was a case that qualified for this verdict, this one seems to be it.

I have a very huge concern about prosecutorial misconduct. The state of Texas has a very high rate of overturned convictions based on problematic prosecutions.

As one blogger I read said, this is about the truth, and Andrea Yates did not get the benefit of truthful testimony, so it's a cause to celebrate the protections of our legal system that she's going to get another day in court so her case can be presented accurately.

The introduction of some jailhouse snitch testimony to the mix makes me sincerely wonder how invested the prosecutors are in making sure that she does get a fair trial.

[InsanitysAngel]

Since I don't see her as a threat to the general public, I don't see where prison is useful at all. It's not like she's a serial killer or such. She was only a danger to her own children and hopefully she would not have any more.

We also have to consider all the valuable and TRUE evidence that is kept out of trials strictly on technicalities. That's another sore spot with me.

[NicoMoon]

Since I don't see her as a threat to the general public, I don't see where prison is useful at all. It's not like she's a serial killer or such. She was only a danger to her own children and hopefully she would not have any more.

We also have to consider all the valuable and TRUE evidence that is kept out of trials strictly on technicalities. That's another sore spot with me.

I'm hard put to say whether I think she's a threat or not. By all accounts, she's seriously mentally imbalanced. At least in prison her medication was supervised, and that seems to be the problem with a lot of people who suffer from severe schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, etc, they tend to go off their meds, and they really need them in order to function within reasonable boundaries.

I hope that she gets the help and care she needs. I don't see the benefit of someone like her being locked up with hardened criminals, that seems like cruel and unusual punishment to me.

But she did commit one of the most horrific acts a human can, we know that for a fact, so who knows what else she might do if not carefully and conscientiously supervised?

I don't think she's a criminal, but she is someone who we need to be concerned about, IMO.

[Destiny]

Since I don't see her as a threat to the general public, I don't see where prison is useful at all. It's not like she's a serial killer or such. She was only a danger to her own children and hopefully she would not have any more.

We also have to consider all the valuable and TRUE evidence that is kept out of trials strictly on technicalities. That's another sore spot with me.


But who's to say she wouldn't have more? Or go after someone else saying the was "told" to do it?

[Destiny]

Since I don't see her as a threat to the general public, I don't see where prison is useful at all. It's not like she's a serial killer or such. She was only a danger to her own children and hopefully she would not have any more.

We also have to consider all the valuable and TRUE evidence that is kept out of trials strictly on technicalities. That's another sore spot with me.


The TRUE evidence that is kept out is in the same boat as politics!

[InsanitysAngel]

The TRUE evidence that is kept out is in the same boat as politics!

How so Destiny?

[Destiny]

How so Destiny?

Oh, I guess I didn't explain myself well enough! What I meant was like politicians sometimes the most vital "evidence" is withheld. Only what they want us to know is told to us. What many people don't realize is that one little speck of evidence could change a jury's decision...oh, and the lawyers know it of course.

[vervilledeb1]

Here are two books on the case.. Are You There Alone? by Suzanne O'Malley and Breaking Point by Suzy Spencer.

[InsanitysAngel]

Oh, I guess I didn't explain myself well enough! What I meant was like politicians sometimes the most vital "evidence" is withheld. Only what they want us to know is told to us. What many people don't realize is that one little speck of evidence could change a jury's decision...oh, and the lawyers know it of course.

Thanks Destiny. Yes, I was a tad confused. Unfortunately, with politics, we simply here the worst, whether it's true or not.

[vervilledeb1]

Russell Yates will remarry today to Laura Arnold. Yes, she has two boys ages 21 and 9. All this two days before his ex Andrea's case is retried for the drowning of their 5 children.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3724261.html

Perfect timing IMO. Lets just throw a curve ball right before the trial. I did read up and Andrea's lawyer is not sure how she is dealing with the remarriage of her ex. And after being told by Dr's that Andrea should not have had more children and he insisted on it I sure hope like h*ll he doesn't do the same thing to his new bride. Or she is smart enough to realize she is being manipulated by this jerk.

[LightHeart]

Russell Yates will remarry today to Laura Arnold. Yes, she has two boys ages 21 and 9. All this two days before his ex Andrea's case is retried for the drowning of their 5 children.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3724261.html

Perfect timing IMO. Lets just throw a curve ball right before the trial. I did read up and Andrea's lawyer is not sure how she is dealing with the remarriage of her ex. And after being told by Dr's that Andrea should not have had more children and he insisted on it I sure hope like h*ll he doesn't do the same thing to his new bride. Or she is smart enough to realize she is being manipulated by this jerk.
Debby, you are being alot nicer then I would be. That SOB should have been on trial too, how he sleeps at night is beyond me!

[vervilledeb1]

Debby, you are being alot nicer then I would be. That SOB should have been on trial too, how he sleeps at night is beyond me!

I am being nice because I am trying to be somewhat professional. Want to know my first thoughts on this as I was getting up this morning? Okay, here goes! I sleep with the TV on. I woke up and this was the first story I heard this morning. My first thoughts were.. he should have been on trial, he should be castrated! And if I was Andreas family I would be filled with such hate it wouldn't be funny. I loath people like this. I was not there to see how he treated Andrea but for him to insist that she keep having children there had to be some psychological manipulation. This woman had homeschooled her children. By the looks of things she was with them 24/7. So matter how you cut it there was devotion there. Where the hell was he? At work? Big deal! He knew she was sick. Did he take any steps to help her? NO! He states he was worried about his kids safety. How worried? Bye kids, Daddy has to go to work. You stay with Mommy who is so depressed she can't take care of herself. Oh, and she will teach you everything you need to know about the ABC's and life in general. Smart man? No, arrogant dumb*ss IMO.

[vervilledeb1]

Andrea Yates retrial has been delayed until June. Jury selection is scheduled for 6/22 and testimony is scheduled to begin on 6/26.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=08249a3f-d5e4-4503-839a-5392bd94ba8c&k=18824

[Antonio]

This is going to be an interesting one. Do you know if they will be showing the trial on CTV?