Abortion or no?

[Jessica]

What are your views on abortion?
This might be the wrong section and I dont want to start arguments, so be civil people and state your views :)

[Franklin]

Hi Jessica,

How about you start the discussion by presenting your views?

[jaescafe]

Oh boy, not sure if I should give my opinion here because I know I'll be asking for it, but here it is anyway. I think abortion is killing a baby. There are a few extreme cases where this is not the case, but if someone is not ready to have a baby and gets pregnant they should give it up for adoption. Don't kill an inocent baby because you don't want one at that time. I know many woman who regret terribly having an abortion and they say it's really hard to live with that guilt some days. My 2 cents don't bite my head off okay.

[LightHeart]

Oh boy, not sure if I should give my opinion here because I know I'll be asking for it, but here it is anyway. I think abortion is killing a baby. There are a few extreme cases where this is not the case, but if someone is not ready to have a baby and gets pregnant they should give it up for adoption. Don't kill an inocent baby because you don't want one at that time. I know many woman who regret terribly having an abortion and they say it's really hard to live with that guilt some days. My 2 cents don't bite my head off okay.
Hi jaescafe, I wouldn't dream of biting your head off, you have every right to your opinion. I have to admit I am 100 percent pro choice. But then again I have always been a rebel.

[vervilledeb1]

Hi jaescafe, I wouldn't dream of biting your head off, you have every right to your opinion. I have to admit I am 100 percent pro choice. But then again I have always been a rebel.

Well I have to jump in! My views on abortion are....I believe a woman has the right to do with her body what she feels is right. In other words NO GOV'T mandating what I can and cannot do.

Second, abortion is killing a baby. This has been scientifically proven.

Third, would I do it...no, I personally can't. But that is me. If I was to become pregnant and didn't want to keep the baby then I would have to put it up for adoption. There are plenty of people out there that cannot have a child.

Fourth, do I believe there are cases when abortion is/can be used? Yes!
If a woman is raped. Also in the case where the fetus is so malformed that life would not be viable outside of the womb. I have known women who were made to carry to term knowing within a few minutes the baby would be pronounced dead. I can't see this. The carrying of the child for nine months then bracing myself to give birth and then all that followed would be sheer heartbreak. Why prolong this?

Okay, there are my views. I'm ready for the debate. :eek:

[NicoMoon]

Hi All,

Great discussion, and awesome comments!

You speak for me on this issue, Debby, so I'll save the bandwidth, except to add that we can't legislate that people will agree on the morality of this issue.

I don't think it belongs in the political arena, I think it's a personal matter between the parents and consciences or spiritual counsellors.

It seems logical to me that life begins at the moment of conception, but there are intangibles that we can't possibly know.

jaescafe, I agree with most of what you're saying. It's very true that the pro-choice movement often portrays abortion as a simple and easy option for one of life's little problems, but that is not true. I've never known a woman who has had an abortion and taken it lightly after the fact, no matter how sure she was that this was the right choice. We do have to address the facts here, and abortion is most definitely an emotional event.

All that said, the only reason I would bite anyone's head off is if they proposed that they have the right to make this decision for another, or that they support laws against it. We don't have the right to decide this issue for anyone, IMO, and we certainly don't have the right to punish anyone for not living up to our personal beliefs.

So, I'm a weirdo like Debby. I'm anti-abortion, but pro-choice. I cannot fathom myself ever having an abortion. But then again, as Debby points out, we never know what kinds of circumstances we'll have to face.

As far as I'm concerned, the abortion issue has only become a matter of public debate because it was spoon fed to us along with all the relevant rhetoric from both sides by people who have hidden agendas. Left to our own devices on this issue, I don't believe that most people would get involved that intimately in the lives of our friends, neighbors, and fellow citizens.

Oh, and I hate it that the Fundy right has co-opted the term "Pro-Live". Everyone but cold hearted murderers and psychopaths are pro-life, and I'm sorry, but I can't categorize abortion as a cold-hearted murder, or as any kind of murder. I don't have the wisdom to make that judgement, or the right, except for myself or a dependent minor for whom I am responsible.

[NicoMoon]

Oh, but if you really want to get me on a head biting off mission, let's talk about the practice of Planned Parenthood to provide abortions to minor young women without even notifying their parents, let alone acknowledging their right to participate in a decision of this magnitude.

On that topic, I can work up some very sharp teeth! :eek:

A dentist can't clean a minor's teeth without parental permission, but these bozos want to put our children's physical and mental health at risk without so much as a text message? Sorry, this one does not fly with me.

Anyone else? Don't be scared to debate me, I bark, but I don't really bite! :D I think impassioned debate is a very healthy thing, and I admire anyone who has the guts and integrity to wage a good fight for their beliefs.

[vervilledeb1]

Oh, but if you really want to get me on a head biting off mission, let's talk about the practice of Planned Parenthood to provide abortions to minor young women without even notifying their parents, let alone acknowledging their right to participate in a decision of this magnitude.

On that topic, I can work up some very sharp teeth! :eek:

A dentist can't clean a minor's teeth without parental permission, but these bozos want to put our children's physical and mental health at risk without so much as a text message? Sorry, this one does not fly with me.

Anyone else? Don't be scared to debate me, I bark, but I don't really bite! :D I think impassioned debate is a very healthy thing, and I admire anyone who has the guts and integrity to wage a good fight for their beliefs.

Okay! Debate started!! :eek: Though I don't believe it should be okay..on the other hand what about these teens that do go through the pregnancy and dump the baby in a trash can? Yes folks, this happens more than you realize. Or the teens that choose to continue to do drugs and drink while pregnant? Maybe it is more viable to grant the abortion without the wrath of the parent(s). Though some parents are mature enough to handle a teen pregnancy and work with the teen for the best possible solution I unfortunately know parents that cannot handle the everyday issues...where would this lead? Other than verbal abuse and degrading of a teenager. I have seen the outcome of this mentality.

[Whirling Dervish]

Though some parents are mature enough to handle a teen pregnancy and work with the teen for the best possible solution I unfortunately know parents that cannot handle the everyday issues...where would this lead? Other than verbal abuse and degrading of a teenager. I have seen the outcome of this mentality.

I have also seen this and it isn't pretty. I know one young woman who had to have an abortion because she couldn't afford her own medical care--she was very young and her father beat her to a pulp and kicked her out of the house when he found out she was pregnant.

[vicki2]

The ongoing problem with any debate on abortion is that it always gets down to personal feelings. It's an impossible topic to generalize because we can only decide based on our own emotions. There are always cases for and against which are really good. Wow ...a hot potato.

[jhoffman]

You may all tear me apart for saying this, but I'm gonna speak honestly and personally.

If I were to get pregnant anytime nowish (I'm 17) - I am 99% sure that I would get an abortion. I don't think I would be able to take care of a child (I'm practically a child still myself in many ways) and, more selfishly, I don't want that responsibility just yet - I want to live my life a little more - I want to go to university, study medicine, have fun and take risks.

I couldn't do that if I had the responsibility of taking care of a child and I don't think I would be able to give a baby up for adoption if I had it anyway.

That doesn't mean to say that I agree with all forms of abortion and obviously it's not a decision that I would, should I find myself in that situation, take lightly - obviously it'll be hard, but it's the most practical thing for me to do, IMO.

What I don't agree with is people who use abortion as some form of messed up contraceptive. The people who go around with the attitude, "Oh - well, I won't use a condom etc. because I can always have an abortion."

That is a mindblowingly stupid, ignorant and very, very selfish attitude to take and I don't agree with it at all. But in places like South Dakota, where they've banned abortions (am I right?) - I think that taking away this option will lead to problems.

I know that a lot of teenage girls may not have very understanding parents, or may just be so terrified and desperate that they would go to extreme measures not to have a child if they got pregnant - backstreet abortions and suicide sort of extreme measures.

But every situation is unique. I don't believe it's always better for a child to live and be born into a life where they will not be loved or where they cannot afford a decent quality of life - but I also don't believe in the complete nonchalance and selfishness with which some people view abortion. It's not an easy way out and shouldn't be seen that way - but I think in some cases, people will need that way out.

[Kokotai]

I think that I don't want anyone else telling me what to do with my body. I want to be able to decide for myself.

[Whirling Dervish]

This is very true, vicky2, and probably why young girls are clobbered by their parents for getting pregnant in the first place.

[cherry]

I am for abortions, in the right circumstance. I dont believe it should be used as birth control, but if a woman really gets pregnant in bad circumstances it should be used ONLY in the very infant stages of pregnancy.

[vervilledeb1]

You may all tear me apart for saying this, but I'm gonna speak honestly and personally.

If I were to get pregnant anytime nowish (I'm 17) - I am 99% sure that I would get an abortion. I don't think I would be able to take care of a child (I'm practically a child still myself in many ways) and, more selfishly, I don't want that responsibility just yet - I want to live my life a little more - I want to go to university, study medicine, have fun and take risks.

I couldn't do that if I had the responsibility of taking care of a child and I don't think I would be able to give a baby up for adoption if I had it anyway.

That doesn't mean to say that I agree with all forms of abortion and obviously it's not a decision that I would, should I find myself in that situation, take lightly - obviously it'll be hard, but it's the most practical thing for me to do, IMO.

What I don't agree with is people who use abortion as some form of messed up contraceptive. The people who go around with the attitude, "Oh - well, I won't use a condom etc. because I can always have an abortion."

That is a mindblowingly stupid, ignorant and very, very selfish attitude to take and I don't agree with it at all. But in places like South Dakota, where they've banned abortions (am I right?) - I think that taking away this option will lead to problems.

I know that a lot of teenage girls may not have very understanding parents, or may just be so terrified and desperate that they would go to extreme measures not to have a child if they got pregnant - backstreet abortions and suicide sort of extreme measures.

But every situation is unique. I don't believe it's always better for a child to live and be born into a life where they will not be loved or where they cannot afford a decent quality of life - but I also don't believe in the complete nonchalance and selfishness with which some people view abortion. It's not an easy way out and shouldn't be seen that way - but I think in some cases, people will need that way out.

First of all JHoffman, you have made some VERY valid and intelligent points. And we are asking for opinions and you gave your very personal opinion of a very delicate matter...thanks. Second, as far as being torn apart over voicing your opinion..no. One of the main rules at Livewire.FM is if you do not agree with someones opinion we are all up for debate which is a good thing. What is not tolerated is the personal attack of another poster. "Debate the post and not the poster".

In the Livewire.FM community it is a goal to make people feel welcomed and NOT have to worry about being personally attacked.

I hope I have alleviated any fears you may have had. Your posts are more than welcomed and enjoyed. :D

[Jessica]

well to add my 2 cents to my own thread.. I agree with this comment
But every situation is unique. I don't believe it's always better for a child to live and be born into a life where they will not be loved or where they cannot afford a decent quality of life - but I also don't believe in the complete nonchalance and selfishness with which some people view abortion. It's not an easy way out and shouldn't be seen that way - but I think in some cases, people will need that way out.

It should be decided on a case by case basis.
If I feel pregnant at 16, I'd want an abortion and should be allowed to get one, with a slap on the wrist and some education afterwards.

However if I was 25 and financially stable and in a relationship and fell pregnant but decided it didnt fit my lifestyle, then this is not grounds for abortion.

[Tigriz]

Yes AND No. This is the problem. No matter what, there will always be situations where abortion should be allowed. Rape victims, life of the mother is threatened, etc. On the same note, there are always going to be situations where people just use abortion as a form of birth control. I had a co-worker who had had four abortions. In my opinion, that not exercising your right to choose, that's being irresponsible.

[beachlover1222]

I am tired of hearing people say "well, I think it's murder except under certain circumstances." Either you think it's murder or it's not. Most people don't realize that they are indeed prochoice.

This whole debate could be lessened if we, AS A SOCIETY, could cut down on the rate of unplanned pregancies here in the U.S. We send so many mixed messages to our children by showing them images of people involved in sexual situations, then trying to tell them "don't have sex." We really need to get a grip on things here.

[Whirling Dervish]

I am tired of hearing people say "well, I think it's murder except under certain circumstances." Either you think it's murder or it's not. Most people don't realize that they are indeed prochoice.

This whole debate could be lessened if we, AS A SOCIETY, could cut down on the rate of unplanned pregancies here in the U.S. We send so many mixed messages to our children by showing them images of people involved in sexual situations, then trying to tell them "don't have sex." We really need to get a grip on things here.

This is true, beachlover, and well put. A lot of people are indeed prochoice who don't know it, but I don't believe that murder/not muder is that black and white. It's not that simple. Even education of teens (and their parents) isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies to zero, nor will it alter the patterns of violence in the shocked families of the teen mother. It isn't going away no matter how much someone preaches, pleads, and educates.

That opinion being tossed out, I believe there are certain circumstances that is not murder, whether we are tired of hearing it or not. I'm sorry it's not as black and white as we would like to think. The situation where it's murder in my opinion is the aforementioned 25 year old who just doesn't want to be bothered. Why doesn't she just offer the child for adoption? Some adoptive parents will even pay for all the medical expenses of a mother who doesn't want her baby.

And yet, we as a society also condone murder itself in certain circumstances, creating even another layer of gray to muddle the black and white world we might want. Why is it okay to murder a possible innocent on death row but not okay to have an abortion and murder a child who would have a horrid life if born? This question can take us into the area of human euthanasia as well. Why is it okay to have an abortion and rid society of a criminal but it's not okay to have mercy on a loved one who is suffering? Murder has many shades and colors depending on your beliefs.

The world is full of gray areas--all the legislation we could muster won't change that, all the irritation we experience won't keep people from seeing it, and in the meantime people are still becoming pregnant. Until we "as a society" make adopting a baby out a more attractive alternative, we'll continue to have the controversy surrounding this subject.

[Kokotai]

I still think that you should not try and legislate a woman's body. I understand the whole "in some situations" arguement but this is a classic example of a reason why the government should leave it alone in the first place...there is no half way point. Most people who argue the point want all or nothing.

[Whirling Dervish]

That's part and parcel of my point, Koko. Because there are so many gray areas, there can't be a black and white law assigned to it. But by the same thinking, we will have to change our definition of "murder" and learn to accept things like assisted suicides and handle death penalty issues in different ways than we are.

[jaescafe]

The only grey area I see is if it would endanger the mothers health or rape. That's it as far as I'm concerned. Killing is killing and there is no way to justify it ever. But again that is just my opinion. People really need to think about what they are doing before having sex of any kind and realize the consequences.

[Kokotai]

But there in lies the problem, your defintion of what may be affecting a woman's health may not be everyones. And as far as rape goes, does that include molestation? Does a woman have to "prove" she has been raped first and if she does, how long will it take and then will the option of abortion be too late. A lot of things come into play here.

[jhoffman]

First of all JHoffman, you have made some VERY valid and intelligent points. And we are asking for opinions and you gave your very personal opinion of a very delicate matter...thanks. Second, as far as being torn apart over voicing your opinion..no. One of the main rules at Livewire.FM is if you do not agree with someones opinion we are all up for debate which is a good thing. What is not tolerated is the personal attack of another poster. "Debate the post and not the poster".

In the Livewire.FM community it is a goal to make people feel welcomed and NOT have to worry about being personally attacked.

I hope I have alleviated any fears you may have had. Your posts are more than welcomed and enjoyed. :D

Ah thanks!

It should be decided on a case by case basis.
If I feel pregnant at 16, I'd want an abortion and should be allowed to get one, with a slap on the wrist and some education afterwards.

However if I was 25 and financially stable and in a relationship and fell pregnant but decided it didnt fit my lifestyle, then this is not grounds for abortion.

Yes - case-by-case, definitely. After all - some 16-years old want/are ready to have kids at that age while there are some who would pass out if they found themselves pregnant before 20 or later.

[JulieRuin]

I think that abortion in ultimately a woman's choice; however, I also think it should be a last resort. If I got pregnant, I would definitely consider abortion because I am in no place in my life to have a baby. I am not even finished college, and I want do to so much with my life. I also don't plan on having kids. It's a tough subject, but abortion shouldn't be outlawed. And can you imagine being raped by your brother and being forced to have that child? I don't think that's right.

[Kokotai]

But here again it is about what "you would choose" and that is the entire point to the debate on this issue. You would choose to do this as a "last resort" and I can respect that as you deicision but ther are many others out there who would propose to make you choose differntly based on "their" beliefs. That is wrong.

[beachlover1222]

I believe that this is one of the most personal decisions a person can make. Only the individual can decide what is best for them and it is between them and their maker to deal with any consequences.